Hive: One Major Advantage Over Bitcoin And Ethereum

in LeoFinancelast month

Do you want to see what fee-less really means in hard numbers? Would you like to know exactly how big an advantage Hive has over both Ethereum and Bitcoin in this area?

We often discuss how Hive is advanced technology that is a lot less expensive to run. So let us begin to put it in numbers.

To start, we look at the daily transactions as posted on Blocktivity.

hivetransactions.png

As we can see, Ethereum is about 400K more per day than Hive while Bitcoin about the same amount less. Some question the accuracy of the Blocktivity numbers, especially with the Proof-of-Work chains. Nevertheless, even if it is off be a factor of 100%, it shows that neither Bitcoin nor Ethereum is doing 10 million or more transactions per day. This is sensible when one considers the time it takes to complete a single transaction. It is the limiting factor of both chains.

Of course, we know the amounts, in USD terms, on both those chains far outpaces what it is on Hive. There are some enormous sums of money moved on both Bitcoin and Ethereum. However, it is vital to remember that it costs the same amount, in fees, to send $1 as it does $1 billion. The data size does not change as the value increases.

The same site also shows us what the present fees are on Bitcoin and Ethereum. We know these have dropped a little from where they were during the last month. This might be temporary or it could be at this level for a while. Users of the platforms simply do not know.

fees.png

As we can see, a Bitcoin transaction costs about $28 while Ethereum just shy of $10. Evidently, these amounts, as well as higher ones, really add up.

How much does this add up to?

Here are a couple headlines that capture it.

bitcoinfees.png

That is a whopping sum. Of course, Bitcoin near $60K really helps that along. However, there is another piece to focus upon.

According to available data, 14.51% of the April revenue came from transaction fees -- some $247 million. This figure represents the highest fee-to-revenue ratio since early 2018.

Source

Bitcoin transaction fees amounted to $247 million for the month of April. This is the money paid out of people's wallets simply to send a transaction.

That, however, is not the worst of it.

A similar headline.

ethereumfees.png

Ethereum miners helped acquire over $1.5 billion in revenue during April, surpassing the previous high of $1.38 billion reported in March. $702 million of the total figure was in transaction fees, or the funds paid to transact on the Ethereum network.

Source

That is a kick in the pants. Almost half the revenues for the month came from transaction fees. A whopping $700 million was paid by users in fees just to send money from one wallet to another.

We discuss how Hive has fee-less transactions. The fees paid by users of Bitcoin and Ethereum amounted to large sums of money for the privilege to operate on those blockchains.

How does Hive stack up?

The numbers we will use come from @quochuy who produces a weekly Witness earning report. There will be some liberties taken such as taking the weekly total and multiplying it by 4.2 to come up with a rough monthly amount.

So let us see how the Witnesses on Hive did.

There was a total of 200206 blocks produced and 57732.16 HP earned during last week.

Using some advanced mathematical skills we see that 57,732 on a monthly basis is 242,474 Hive. If we apply the present HIVE price of 63 cents, we see that the total is $152,758 for the month.

This is a healthy sum but a lot less than what we see on Bitcoin and Ethereum. We must remember, that if Blocktivity's numbers are even remotely correct, the volume of transactions in number does not exceed Hive by a tremendous amount.

Of course, the price of HIVE is a lot lower than what the others are. Let us, for discussion sake, 10x the price of HIVE. This would make it $6.30 and the amounts would jump to $1.5 million. This is a much bigger sum.

There is a challenge with doing this however. The price, in USD, really does not matter to the ecosystem (as it applies here). None of this is coming from anyone's wallet. All the HIVE (HP) being distributed comes from the blockchain. This is similar to miners winning the race on Ethereum and Bitcoin.

Thus we might want to look at the revenues for block validators that came as a result of the fees.

Here is where the fee-less comes in.

That total for the month of April on Hive: ZERO.


To read the full Witness Earning Report, go here


That is really an eye opening conclusion.

Hive users paid ZERO in fees to transact compared to more than $700 million on Ethereum and $240 million on Bitcoin. Certainly, the reason for sending the money, especially on Ethereum, is a bit different. That is people getting involved in DeFi as well as the NFT craze.

However, from the idea of a payment or money transaction standpoint, it is easy to see how these fees could be avoided.

We often take the fee-less idea for granted until the numbers are looked at. Sure anyone can conclude that when faced with a $30 fee simply to send some money. That said, the totality of it all, for the entire system, really can put things in perspective.

This is one major advantage that Hive as over those other two chains. Over tens of millions of transactions in the month, the difference gets into hundreds of millions of dollars.

Actually, if we add up the two chains, we come in near $1 billion. There was a time when that was considered to be a lot of money.

Total revenues from transaction fees on Hive: ZERO.


If you found this article informative, please give an upvote and rehive.

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It looks like you are already full use of the link I dropped in the @leomarkettalk the other day. But yea its a nice comparison activity and money generated. I am assuming this does not include HE at all and it is more related to actual votes, comments and transfers.

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Which part?

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The link I was talking about was the witness earnings.

As for Hive Engine, I think it is a completely seperate system as it doesn't generate HIVE but instead BEE. But I could be wrong so what is validated by the witnesses would be the only be posts, comments and HIVE/HBD transfers.

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Isn't Ethereum becoming like HIVE in a technical way (proof of work -> proof of stake, with validator nodes)?
If yes, then Hive has a pretty big advantage.

How many times, the list of the 21 top Hive witness changes? Everday? Every month? Every year?

How many times, the list of the 21 top Hive witness changes? Everday? Every month? Every year?

The elections happen every three seconds.
The downside is, it makes people pay less attention.

They are switching over to PoS, or that is the plan. We will see how it goes.

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A more interesting comparison would be to similar chains that don't have fees, there was a post about such a chain on lbi but I forgot it's name. By comparison I mean what each chain brings to the table in the sense of ease of use, scalability, etc.

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I defer to you on that one.

I look forward to reading it when you post it.

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hmmm I don't think my next post will make you happy unfortunately :P

Tell me, is there a mobile wallet that you can create an account for free?
Is it possible to create an account using the hive keychain extension?

In bitcoin you can create a wallet whenever you want, in ethereum too...

I dont believe so but I am not an expert it at.

I do know "lite" accounts are being discussed but have no idea where they stand.

As for the wallets on the other two chains, I will create a free wallet for you if you pay me $10-$30 a transaction. 😁

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Lite accounts can a game changer for hive to be used as a currency... However, the cryptocurrency market is very fast, here comes ethereum 2.0 that promises to lower fees and bitcoin is digital gold so people don't care about fees.

I will create a free wallet for you if you pay me $10-$30 a transaction.

At least they can receive the coins in those wallets. I hope that the vision of the hive community is to be a currency used by more people.

edit:
It looks like the hive keychain extension will add an option to create a hive account.


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here comes ethereum 2.0 that promises to lower fees

And how soon will that roll out.

My understanding is that the fees will be more predictable with this upgrade. However, it is not going to lower them. That is still a couple years out.

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@faireye you have a very valid point..m


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We all know fees on Ethereum are like the worst horror story. My decision was and still is to stay away from it. I am curious to see how much they can resist. It is for a selected few as small users have no chance.

I just hope Hive can grow in the next couple of years.

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We all know fees on Ethereum are like the worst horror story

😂😂😂 Horror story indeed!

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We are spoiled here with zero fees. Don't even have to think twice about transacting. Or voting. Or anything we do here. Just wonder how long until Ethereum users start to figure it out.

I imagine the only way for a developer to create a frictionless experience for the user over there is to eat the fees. Over here they don't have to, they just need enough Hive to cover their resource credit usage, and could cover some of that by generating Hive through posting content.

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It is what makes things such as gaming and NFTs ultimately hard on Ethereum.

Project can get a lot of funding on Ethereum since that is where the money is but become impossible to use due to fees.

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Interesting look at the figures, we probably are not appreciating Hive's fee-less transition well enough, imagine Hive was on Ethereum, wouldn't that be a nightmare?

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It would be dead. There is no way a social media site could operate on Etheruem.

Are you going to pay $10 to give someone an upvote?

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Certainly not 😃!

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Once the Hive Smart Chain starts, not only will hive dwarf the fees paid on Ethereum, hive will also have an elthereum clone as part of its ecosystem. The growth may be slow here, but the limit is something we are nowhere close to.


Posted via proofofbrain.io

We will have to see. No way to know what the fees are or how it will be structured.

Still need to prevent against spam and attacks of heavy volume.

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When they need to move money between exchanges, I always recommend my friends to use Hive. It is fast and costs a fraction of pretty much any other crypto.

All the major exchanges have Hive so its not an issue.


Posted via proofofbrain.io

Very smart suggestion. It really makes a great deal of sense when you think about it.

Why use LTC or BTC between exchanges if you can use HIVE.

Coinbase is one that you cant do that with.

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Coinbase is one that you cant do that with.

Unfortunately. Currently that is the only cryptocurrency exchange that supports Hungarian Forint (HUF), so I have to use other cryptocurrencies, if I would like to buy/sell Hive with/for Hungarian Forint (HUF).

I feel your pain since it is the one I use also and, as such, have to go through other tokens.

It is a pain in the ass and requires going through something like Blocktrades.

We will see what some of these projects bring to the table in terms of exposure. Something like 3Speak might elevate things.

I have a feeling things will be very different around here by the end of the year.

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Yes this is a point i made about dpos systems like 4 years ago. That so much could be done with fee-less systems. However in my view the use would be more significant as a currency not writing blogs. Thus i created BBD coin a cryptocurrency with stability.. that inflation rate increases based on users which i'm making my latest video on.

Imagine a useful fast cryptocurrency that could be a money for social media profiles. That as well buying power increased or inflation rate as more people used it. That is the basis of BBD coin. I've been telling people this for 4 years they sitll not listening. That's a mistake

That means a product would be better than bitcoin, ethereum, doge, litecoin, bitcoin cash, xrp, waves and even eos as i think eos wallets are not appealing to the mainstream new user. Understanding the ability of use and significant stability not just 30-40% constant dumps each week. I can't do anything with that but speculate. That is what i'm talking about. Do people listen now? No they don't. Does it matter? No it does not because usefulness eventually wins out and this is the holy grail of crypto. This is why it works.

Now unfortunately for dpos systems to run it cost a great deal of money. It does not cost alot of money for second layer tokens to run. There is no miner or witness inflation working against it. So the inflation gets paid back to you guessed it every token holder. These type make sense approaches is what will work. Not the game theory and speculation but the actual usefulness. What can be done with stability? A multitude of things. Merchants and vendors can use these products. A level of more safe investment and lower rick can happen. Not wild endless speculation. A ubi or living wage can be paid out. As we know the cryptocurrency would always not only be worth something but closer to its value.. The list can go on and on.

Many of these defi exchanges like uniswap and what's happening on binance are ridiculously high and costly. I think cctipswaps is a better situation as far as liquidity pools go. That's where bbd coin trades as well and fees are paid to the liquidity pool. It also trades on steem engine, bitcoin cash, bitcoin sv to create interoperability as well as waves.

Approaches like this are real useful products into the future. This is where cryptocurrency is going. I believe this has to happen as to me its the only thing that really makes sense.

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I do love the way Hive works. DPoS makes maintaining the network many times cheaper than "classic" Proof of Work. Not only is the block time 3 seconds, but a new account can perform dozens of operations per day at no cost. Something wonderful!

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This is why it's so important to keep building the infrastructure. At some point this place could explode in new users. If and when that happens, the last thing we need is to run into the same problems these other chains have. If the base layer is in place and able to handle the volume, the amount of users attracted to the low fees and hundreds of applications could absolutely dwarf most of the blockchains out there currently. Keep stacking....it's coming.

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The base layer seems up to task for the next few iterations of growth. We dont know what it can truly handle but it is far more than we see now. A lot more upside in both user numbers and transactions.

But I agree, keep filling in. A lot to be done.

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Boom

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You can say that again.

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Those of us that know this have to help get the word out. Maybe it should be one of the most promoted parts of hive?

!BBH

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Dude. How do you have the time to dig into and present this level of information so frequently?

Seeing the amount of the pending payouts on his posts, he is probably doing this as a full time job. Actually he earn much more money with posting these on the Hive blockchain than what most of the people earn in my country (Hungary) with their full time jobs.

What is the monthly salary in Hungary?


Posted via proofofbrain.io

The official minimum wage is approximately $550 USD per month, but most people do not earn that much. I know people, who live on approximately $180 USD. I receive a pension-like income, which is approximately $250 USD per month. I also work in a 4 hours per day part time job, but my full income still does not reach the minimum wage.

Probably me too and I live in the U.S., lol.

Habit of constantly reading and researching. As the knowledge tank fills, more reference points to start connecting a few dots.

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We need DeFi on HIVE. I know that HIVE is too decentralized for such a coordinated effort, but I can't help but think that the HIVE blockchain is the perfect candidate for the job. The world needs HIVE, and we need to spread the word.

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Hive Smart Chain is being worked on some. Don't know the progress of it right now since there is another project that needs to see the light of day first.

What Hive needs is a truly decentralized smart contract platform that can allow for projects to spin things up very inexpensively.

There are a number of projects that are focusing upon that. We will see where things stand in 3-4 months.

The latest paper by the Speak Network details a great deal about that too.

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Gonna look into the Hive Smart Chain project and the paper by the Speak Network, seems like I've missed a lot. Thanks for the heads up.

Have a good one!

!LUV 1

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@klye is the one who is working on the HSC.

Check his posts for the information about it. There is also a proposal for it.

https://peakd.com/dhf/@klye/proposal-hive-side-chain-hsc-development-funding-creating-a-ethereum-virtual-machine-hive-side-chain-enabling-decentralized-i

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Hi @taskmaster4450le, you were just shared some LUV thanks to @lordneroo. Holding 10 LUV in your wallet enables you to give up to 3 LUV per day, for free. See the LUV in your wallet at https://hive-engine.com or learn about LUV at https://peakd.com/@luvshares

As we can see, a Bitcoin transaction costs about $28 while Ethereum just shy of $10.

Both are much more than what I spend in a single day with fiat money. These high fees will not going to help the mass adoption of Bitcoin and Ethereum.

Agreed.

And they are down from where they were a week ago.

Ethereum is working on lowering the fees but nobody knows how long it will take. They might get it soon or it might take a while.

That is why BSC is killing it with DeFi. They are more than likely to keep growing with people playing with smaller amounts of capital.

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If people are interested in doing decentralized Web 3.0 projects, then Hive would be an obvious choice, wouldn't it? Possibly one of the only available choices. So why aren't building on Hive and instead use tech that makes it so hard to have high scale? Maybe because they don't know about Hive. And maybe they're interested in making money and don't really care about decentralized Web 3.0. So, in the end, perhaps few people are interested in building the future web and social infrastructure, the vast majority simply follow the money.

If people are interested in doing decentralized Web 3.0 projects, then Hive would be an obvious choice, wouldn't it?

I would think so but then that is me.

And maybe they're interested in making money and don't really care about decentralized Web 3.0.

From what I heard, if you want to make money, you develop on Ethereum. The app you create will likely die due to the high fees but you will make a bundle in the process. It is where most of the money is at right now (although BSC seems to be making some noise on that end).

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Hive is way more flexible than other chains. This point will be at the endgame the point that matters.

So I'm bullish :) Look how long it takes to bring ETh to 2.0. What if they want 3.0?

ETH is like OIL, Hive like renewal energy.

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Look how long it takes to bring ETh to 2.0. What if they want 3.0?

And they still arent at 2.0 yet. They are running on testnet but the real challenge is in the full conversion. A lot of money in those smart contracts that is at risk.

I agree, I am super optimistic about Hive.

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My favorite fee is a fee of $0.00... You can't beat free.

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LOL that is very true.

Unless they pay you to use the platform like Uniswap essentially did.

That was a nice airdrop.

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Hive users paid ZERO in fees to transact compared to more than $700 million on Ethereum and $240 million on Bitcoin.

When ETH and BTC maximalists move beyond these two coins, their mind will be freaking blown. I don't know why many devs, users or investors utilize DPoS & PoS blockchains. They are faster, cheaper (feeless or small fee) & highly scalable as compared to these two.

Hive's community is the biggest asset we have and there are so many talented people collectively complete this place. I wish more and more people get to know about us and the value we are creating here.

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Hive is actually on a nice path. We are spreading out tentacles on a regular basis. It is small iterations right now, not huge by any means.

However, there will come a point where all of that will pay off and the exponential nature will take over.

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I think we just need to create 3-5 projects like Leo Finance and Hive will moon very soon.

I see these developments happening as I go deep into the ecosystem.

@hivelist and @threespeak are on the right track to becoming one of the path-breaking projects for Hive. Bring eCommerce and video sharing network respectively. I am sure there are more, just need to find them.

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The key is the possibilities keep increasing. This makes the chances of success much greater. It is the all the eggs in one basket idea.

The more we are tossing at it, the greater the chance something breaks through. This will eventually excite the masses.

@hivelist is something that was not on my radar but can make a big difference.

We get a dozen projects popping and we will see a much different ecosystem.

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That would be so cool. Will make our ecosystem rich. We would want to generate as many possible usecase of Hive to cover a wide range of domains.

Also, the way Leo Finance is working towards interoperability, I hope to see other Blockchains getting connected to Hive, creating more value through collaborative effort.

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Zero fees are simply beautiful. Only a few know it.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

They really do make a difference.

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I fully agree with you HIVE and similar blockchains having zero fees, are so much better positioned than those chains that require a fee to be paid. I still wonder why in the top 10 coins by market cap, many chains have tx fees. That said, I ran into more than a few discussions at Twitter with users that didn't understand how a chain can offer feeless transactions, ie these users didn't trust a feeless chain. Hence I concluded that we need to explain what feeless is and how this is achieved. We shall explain we need to lockup some base chain tokens to be able to experience the feeless behaviour of the chain. When I started to explain that part, some of the users started to turn their distrust into 'owww, ok, I understand' and 'that's not a bad way of implementation'. I believe we shall not only mention feeless but add the explanation of MANA to it, the need to hold (some) tokens to receive enough MANA to actually being able to transact on the chain. Also, I do hope we get Smart Contract support for HIVE, since this will give great potential in the DeFi space.

BTW, when HIVE would end up in the top 10, with today's market caps, this means something like 50 Billion market cap, which essentially means about 150$/HIVE, which means 23 Million to the witnesses, per month.Still a lot less to the tx fees paid to Ethereum miners, but becoming considerable :)

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BTW, when HIVE would end up in the top 10, with today's market caps, this means something like 50 Billion market cap, which essentially means about 150$/HIVE, which means 23 Million to the witnesses, per month.Still a lot less to the tx fees paid to Ethereum miners, but becoming considerable :)

LOL I never ran the numbers but that is a terrific point. You really delved into it.

So yeah, this just shows how much more efficient a system like this is.

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I just extrapolated some of your numbers and looked at the market cap of the top 10 :) Owww, and I know a little about ADA and Polkadot, and some of the other top 10 tokens 😉

Nice article @taskmaster4450le, back in the day when I was just starting out, the no fee transactions was a big pull factor for me. It definitely still is. I know how many transactions I perform everyday on the HIVE ecosystem and I could not imagine having to pay exorbitant fees each time, it would make it unworkable and basically unenjoyable to engage. HIVE is a really enjoyable blockchain to be involved in.

I have been spending a fair bit of time over on Cubdefi.com and the fees there really irk me... and they are very low in comparison to the ETH and BTC networks. I know that every time I transact over the BSC network I always make sure the transaction if over a suitable size to make the fees worthwhile.

We have it so good over here in the HIVE ecosystem, such a hidden gem from the larger community.

I was over on Binance today, doing some trading, I was amazed at the trading volumes that are occurring for the larger coins. HIVE on the other hand had very low volumes and there are so few trading pairs available for HIVE on the Binance Exchange. I am guessing that the same is true for other exchanges.

I know we are all doing what we can to get the word out about HIVE and with the huge flurry of excitement for all the other coins, HIVE is getting a bit lost in the frenzy. Do you have any thoughts on what each of us could to more to drive further adoption? Also, how do exchanges determine when to create more trading pairs for a coin? I truly believe more readily available trading pairs for HIVE would make a big difference.

Wow, this has turned into quite the reply.

Reply authored by @strenue

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Fees are something that people coming at things from the financial perspective accept as normal. However, from the social media perspective, it is completely foreight.

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You are absolutely correct. Fees is often something that people do not pay enough attention to in the financial world. I have some mates that used to trade a lot on the stock market and they burnt a lot of their profits through the trading fees and management fees.

I am more of a long term, contrarian investor. I find something I like, take a position and then ride the rollercoaster. 🤚💎 ✋

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Very informative this post !!! it really shows a clear difference between transactions, where I dare say that probably as long as commissions remain high for small investors like us we will keep making withdrawals and deposits through Hive :) until Leo is listed on Binance.

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I am trading BTC for Hive right now, as Hive is the most sensible place to vest.

In the near future
if we can realize
and object to do
what btc or etc are doing
the fees situation will sum
to something else.
Great post to see how resource credit
is valuable.

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but look whose #1 fucking @telosnetwork @hellotelos

http://blocktivity.info/

image.png

and look at the fucking potentials

This is a HIVE feature that we cannot emphasize enough. That $ 10 dollar per transaction adds up quickly.

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This post is on point and something that does help Hive shine above the rest, at least as far as a platform situation. We are currently working on a smart contract creation platform for multiple chains, not Hive at this point, but maybe in the future, and will say that the transaction fees are no freaking joke, especially on ETH.

Great break down and analysis! Reposting and it will show on the front page of https://coin-logic.com!

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